> But epigenetics show that we are constantly changing how those
> genes are expressed throughout our lives. So, the genetic story isn't
> as set as it might appear.
There are only one or two case studies proposed for the phenomenon of
epigenetics. It may well turn out to be of minor significance. A
friend of mine is a big cheese on Epigenetics at Cardiff and I am
keeping my ear close to the ground.
It would seem that there is little survival "logic" involved in the
consequences of this phenomenon, it is hard to predict and hard to
identify. Many of the findings are not much beyond statistical error
and could easily be confused for societal changes in diet and food
availability, never before so plentiful in human history.
No one is saying that epigenetics will be found to have a great effect
on our mental capabilties or other significant factors beyond basic
growth patterns, if then.
On 24 Jul, 12:07, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > But epigenetics show that we are constantly changing how those
> > genes are expressed throughout our lives. So, the genetic story isn't
> > as set as it might appear.
> There are only one or two case studies proposed for the phenomenon of
> epigenetics.
I assume that those two case studies involve looking into the
known epigenetic processes of methylation, acetylation,
phosphorylation, ubiquitylation, and sumolyation of histone, which
could, potentially, lead to over 9,000 ways any gene could be
expressed?
>It may well turn out to be of minor significance. A
> friend of mine is a big cheese on Epigenetics at Cardiff and I am
> keeping my ear close to the ground.
> It would seem that there is little survival "logic" involved in the
> consequences of this phenomenon, it is hard to predict and hard to
> identify. Many of the findings are not much beyond statistical error
> and could easily be confused for societal changes in diet and food
> availability, never before so plentiful in human history.
The cellular processes themselves have always been available.
Granted, some may occur more or less often depending on available
foodstuffs. But the inherent variety of genetic expression is down to
the nnumber of ways in which these processes can be applied to any
gene. It seems to me that there's a world of possible consequence.
When the terms: massively parallel signature sequencing (MPSS),
chromatin immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (ChIP-chip), DNA
adenine methyltransferase identification (Dam-ID), protein binding
microarrays (PBM)and DNA immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (DIP-
chip) become as familiar as X-Ray and MRI, we'll know a lot more about
it.
> No one is saying that epigenetics will be found to have a great effect
> on our mental capabilties or other significant factors beyond basic
> growth patterns, if then.
Notwithstanding influencing disease resistence, drug resistence
and efficiency and disease etiology itself, you're probably right.
Chaz - there is massive activity in epigenetics, even an EU Centre for
it. Biochemistry was my field and I'm still reading reports on
advances as part of my daily diet. I was head of research innovation
(funding really) in the department for biomolecular engineering until
5 years ago. The epidemiology studies in epigenetics are very sound,
and actual chemical pathways are being found. There have been deep
advances in lab equipment and these are beginning to pay off.
On 24 Jul, 12:58, Pat <PatrickDHarring...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 24 Jul, 12:07, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > But epigenetics show that we are constantly changing how those
> > > genes are expressed throughout our lives. So, the genetic story isn't
> > > as set as it might appear.
> > There are only one or two case studies proposed for the phenomenon of
> > epigenetics.
> I assume that those two case studies involve looking into the
> known epigenetic processes of methylation, acetylation,
> phosphorylation, ubiquitylation, and sumolyation of histone, which
> could, potentially, lead to over 9,000 ways any gene could be
> expressed?
> >It may well turn out to be of minor significance. A
> > friend of mine is a big cheese on Epigenetics at Cardiff and I am
> > keeping my ear close to the ground.
> > It would seem that there is little survival "logic" involved in the
> > consequences of this phenomenon, it is hard to predict and hard to
> > identify. Many of the findings are not much beyond statistical error
> > and could easily be confused for societal changes in diet and food
> > availability, never before so plentiful in human history.
> The cellular processes themselves have always been available.
> Granted, some may occur more or less often depending on available
> foodstuffs. But the inherent variety of genetic expression is down to
> the nnumber of ways in which these processes can be applied to any
> gene. It seems to me that there's a world of possible consequence.
> When the terms: massively parallel signature sequencing (MPSS),
> chromatin immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (ChIP-chip), DNA
> adenine methyltransferase identification (Dam-ID), protein binding
> microarrays (PBM)and DNA immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (DIP-
> chip) become as familiar as X-Ray and MRI, we'll know a lot more about
> it.
> > No one is saying that epigenetics will be found to have a great effect
> > on our mental capabilties or other significant factors beyond basic
> > growth patterns, if then.
> Notwithstanding influencing disease resistence, drug resistence
> and efficiency and disease etiology itself, you're probably right.
> > > > > Here's one for Ian. He is curious about Pat's ideas on the > "purpose" > > > > > and intentions of RNA. > > > > > During a conversation about teleology, I was insisting that the > > > > > universe is basically devoid of purpose, whilst Pat was pointing > out > > > > > his theory that everything is connected by a vast Quantum god, and > > > > > affects the world with a string theory model, in which He is > > > > > demonstrated to be Omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. It seems > > > > > that RNA is the main areas in intervention.
> > > > > Some quotes to give you the fell of the discussion:
> > > > > >For all we know, RNA could be using their hosts for experimenting. > > > > > > Whilst it may sound silly, we know that, at the root level, it's > RNA > > > > > >that's calling the shots. > > > > > > LOL!! RNA rules. And you're living proof. I couldn't care less > > > > > > what you think, Chaz. RNA runs our machinery.
> > > > > I excused myself from the discussion, thinking it to whacky, and > > > > > wanting to avoid the inevitable insults that were queueing up in my > > > > > language processor.
> > > > Rather, to give you one side of it. Later, of course, Chaz > comes > > > > out with this one:
> > > > "The raison d'etre of the gene is to make an organism that survives."
> > > > If he wants to have his cake and eat it too, that's fine by me.
> > > Human language is geared towards teleology . That is why there is a > > > confusion between reason and purpose and between purpose and ends. > > > There are subtle nuances in context that can make those, that think > > > the whole of existence is teleological, misinterpret another (either > > > intentionally or unintentionally). > > > So I hope I never say what I don't mean - though I might. > > > Now the same question back to you. > > > Did you mean that "RNA is calling the shots", or "RNA might be > > > experimenting on us". Or did you mean to say something else?
> > > Although I have already explained EXACTLY what I meant by raison > > > d'etre of genes. I will repeat that the "reason" genes survive is due > > > to the survival of the organisms they represent, and vice versa by the > > > way. This "reason" is the reason I, and evolutionary science have > > > noticed. It is not the "reason" or purpose of genes in themselves.
> > > So now, in the interests of balance: let us know what you mean by:
> > > >For all we know, RNA could be using their hosts for experimenting. > > > > Whilst it may sound silly, we know that, at the root level, it's RNA > that's calling the shots. > > > > LOL!! RNA rules. And you're living proof. I couldn't care less > > > > what you think, Chaz. RNA runs our machinery.
> > > Please try to do it in your own words Without resorting to 5 pages of > > > irrelevant copy&paste.
> > OK, but I will link in a few pages.
> > In this one, a scientist mentions intelligent RNA in reference to > > viruses. It begs the question 'why would it be different in more > > complex creatures?'
> > So, perhaps what we humans are is viral RNA in control of > > mitochondrial/bacterial machinery using DNA as a storage device at the > > cellular level. And these little modified viral and bacterial bits > > don't NEED to have consciousness, per se, because they're clever > > enough to build us.
On Jul 24, 3:19 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Chaz - there is massive activity in epigenetics, even an EU Centre for
> it. Biochemistry was my field and I'm still reading reports on
> advances as part of my daily diet. I was head of research innovation
> (funding really) in the department for biomolecular engineering until
> 5 years ago. The epidemiology studies in epigenetics are very sound,
> and actual chemical pathways are being found. There have been deep
> advances in lab equipment and these are beginning to pay off.
So , what earth shattering and life changing developments are we to
expect in the next few years that justify all that navel gazing?
> On 24 Jul, 12:58, Pat <PatrickDHarring...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On 24 Jul, 12:07, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > But epigenetics show that we are constantly changing how those
> > > > genes are expressed throughout our lives. So, the genetic story isn't
> > > > as set as it might appear.
> > > There are only one or two case studies proposed for the phenomenon of
> > > epigenetics.
> > I assume that those two case studies involve looking into the
> > known epigenetic processes of methylation, acetylation,
> > phosphorylation, ubiquitylation, and sumolyation of histone, which
> > could, potentially, lead to over 9,000 ways any gene could be
> > expressed?
> > >It may well turn out to be of minor significance. A
> > > friend of mine is a big cheese on Epigenetics at Cardiff and I am
> > > keeping my ear close to the ground.
> > > It would seem that there is little survival "logic" involved in the
> > > consequences of this phenomenon, it is hard to predict and hard to
> > > identify. Many of the findings are not much beyond statistical error
> > > and could easily be confused for societal changes in diet and food
> > > availability, never before so plentiful in human history.
> > The cellular processes themselves have always been available.
> > Granted, some may occur more or less often depending on available
> > foodstuffs. But the inherent variety of genetic expression is down to
> > the nnumber of ways in which these processes can be applied to any
> > gene. It seems to me that there's a world of possible consequence.
> > When the terms: massively parallel signature sequencing (MPSS),
> > chromatin immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (ChIP-chip), DNA
> > adenine methyltransferase identification (Dam-ID), protein binding
> > microarrays (PBM)and DNA immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (DIP-
> > chip) become as familiar as X-Ray and MRI, we'll know a lot more about
> > it.
> > > No one is saying that epigenetics will be found to have a great effect
> > > on our mental capabilties or other significant factors beyond basic
> > > growth patterns, if then.
> > Notwithstanding influencing disease resistence, drug resistence
> > and efficiency and disease etiology itself, you're probably right.
> Chaz - there is massive activity in epigenetics, even an EU Centre for
> it. Biochemistry was my field and I'm still reading reports on
> advances as part of my daily diet. I was head of research innovation
> (funding really) in the department for biomolecular engineering until
> 5 years ago. The epidemiology studies in epigenetics are very sound,
> and actual chemical pathways are being found. There have been deep
> advances in lab equipment and these are beginning to pay off.
> On 24 Jul, 12:58, Pat <PatrickDHarring...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On 24 Jul, 12:07, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > But epigenetics show that we are constantly changing how those
> > > > genes are expressed throughout our lives. So, the genetic story isn't
> > > > as set as it might appear.
> > > There are only one or two case studies proposed for the phenomenon of
> > > epigenetics.
> > I assume that those two case studies involve looking into the
> > known epigenetic processes of methylation, acetylation,
> > phosphorylation, ubiquitylation, and sumolyation of histone, which
> > could, potentially, lead to over 9,000 ways any gene could be
> > expressed?
> > >It may well turn out to be of minor significance. A
> > > friend of mine is a big cheese on Epigenetics at Cardiff and I am
> > > keeping my ear close to the ground.
> > > It would seem that there is little survival "logic" involved in the
> > > consequences of this phenomenon, it is hard to predict and hard to
> > > identify. Many of the findings are not much beyond statistical error
> > > and could easily be confused for societal changes in diet and food
> > > availability, never before so plentiful in human history.
> > The cellular processes themselves have always been available.
> > Granted, some may occur more or less often depending on available
> > foodstuffs. But the inherent variety of genetic expression is down to
> > the nnumber of ways in which these processes can be applied to any
> > gene. It seems to me that there's a world of possible consequence.
> > When the terms: massively parallel signature sequencing (MPSS),
> > chromatin immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (ChIP-chip), DNA
> > adenine methyltransferase identification (Dam-ID), protein binding
> > microarrays (PBM)and DNA immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (DIP-
> > chip) become as familiar as X-Ray and MRI, we'll know a lot more about
> > it.
> > > No one is saying that epigenetics will be found to have a great effect
> > > on our mental capabilties or other significant factors beyond basic
> > > growth patterns, if then.
> > Notwithstanding influencing disease resistence, drug resistence
> > and efficiency and disease etiology itself, you're probably right.
On Jul 24, 5:25 pm, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 3:19 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Chaz - there is massive activity in epigenetics, even an EU Centre for
> > it. Biochemistry was my field and I'm still reading reports on
> > advances as part of my daily diet. I was head of research innovation
> > (funding really) in the department for biomolecular engineering until
> > 5 years ago. The epidemiology studies in epigenetics are very sound,
> > and actual chemical pathways are being found. There have been deep
> > advances in lab equipment and these are beginning to pay off.
> So , what earth shattering and life changing developments are we to
> expect in the next few years that justify all that navel gazing?
Breakthroughs in disease resistence, drug resistence
and efficiency and disease etiology itself, like I said. But, I'm
sure if you heard it from Neil, you'd tend to accept it more. Neil?
> > On 24 Jul, 12:58, Pat <PatrickDHarring...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 24 Jul, 12:07, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > But epigenetics show that we are constantly changing how those
> > > > > genes are expressed throughout our lives. So, the genetic story isn't
> > > > > as set as it might appear.
> > > > There are only one or two case studies proposed for the phenomenon of
> > > > epigenetics.
> > > I assume that those two case studies involve looking into the
> > > known epigenetic processes of methylation, acetylation,
> > > phosphorylation, ubiquitylation, and sumolyation of histone, which
> > > could, potentially, lead to over 9,000 ways any gene could be
> > > expressed?
> > > >It may well turn out to be of minor significance. A
> > > > friend of mine is a big cheese on Epigenetics at Cardiff and I am
> > > > keeping my ear close to the ground.
> > > > It would seem that there is little survival "logic" involved in the
> > > > consequences of this phenomenon, it is hard to predict and hard to
> > > > identify. Many of the findings are not much beyond statistical error
> > > > and could easily be confused for societal changes in diet and food
> > > > availability, never before so plentiful in human history.
> > > The cellular processes themselves have always been available.
> > > Granted, some may occur more or less often depending on available
> > > foodstuffs. But the inherent variety of genetic expression is down to
> > > the nnumber of ways in which these processes can be applied to any
> > > gene. It seems to me that there's a world of possible consequence.
> > > When the terms: massively parallel signature sequencing (MPSS),
> > > chromatin immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (ChIP-chip), DNA
> > > adenine methyltransferase identification (Dam-ID), protein binding
> > > microarrays (PBM)and DNA immunoprecipitation microarray analysis (DIP-
> > > chip) become as familiar as X-Ray and MRI, we'll know a lot more about
> > > it.
> > > > No one is saying that epigenetics will be found to have a great effect
> > > > on our mental capabilties or other significant factors beyond basic
> > > > growth patterns, if then.
> > > Notwithstanding influencing disease resistence, drug resistence
> > > and efficiency and disease etiology itself, you're probably right.- Hide quoted text -
> On Jul 24, 5:25 pm, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 24, 3:19 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Chaz - there is massive activity in epigenetics, even an EU Centre for
> > > it. Biochemistry was my field and I'm still reading reports on
> > > advances as part of my daily diet. I was head of research innovation
> > > (funding really) in the department for biomolecular engineering until
> > > 5 years ago. The epidemiology studies in epigenetics are very sound,
> > > and actual chemical pathways are being found. There have been deep
> > > advances in lab equipment and these are beginning to pay off.
> > So , what earth shattering and life changing developments are we to
> > expect in the next few years that justify all that navel gazing?
> Breakthroughs in disease resistence, drug resistence
> and efficiency and disease etiology itself, like I said. But, I'm
> sure if you heard it from Neil, you'd tend to accept it more. Neil?
From what I have seen all the studies of epigenetics demonstrates that
RNA is far from smart, but rather stupid as most epigenetic phenomena
have come to our attention due to problems in transgenerational
inheritance.
It all depends on what we are trying to grasp with the word smart. We
have smart bombs - typically we would have through our unsmart ways of
doing things. I would much rather we got to grips with pathological
capitalism as a first priority. One thing I would say before
addressing where the new technologies are leading is that many of the
promises are to do with the crud one has to put in bids to get
financing and they are not real that often.
I would guess that the complex sequencing we are witnessing will break
down into a few rules - a bit like we can do with simulated bird-flock
flight. I'll get back on what epigenetics and related chemical gene-
activity change sometime later. Some experiments are working with
femto-laser pulses to insert genetic material and people are mucking
about with light tweazers and million shot a second photography.
Chaz sounds a bit like Habermas here - we need human values in a
lifeworld of communicative rationality and live in a systemic idiocy.
Environmental studies are beginning to show a detailed network, a
sequencing of this. There is some kind of analogue here to the
genetic methods.
On 24 Jul, 23:22, chazwin <chazwy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Chaz - there is massive activity in epigenetics, even an EU Centre for
> > > > it. Biochemistry was my field and I'm still reading reports on
> > > > advances as part of my daily diet. I was head of research innovation
> > > > (funding really) in the department for biomolecular engineering until
> > > > 5 years ago. The epidemiology studies in epigenetics are very sound,
> > > > and actual chemical pathways are being found. There have been deep
> > > > advances in lab equipment and these are beginning to pay off.
> > > So , what earth shattering and life changing developments are we to
> > > expect in the next few years that justify all that navel gazing?
> > Breakthroughs in disease resistence, drug resistence
> > and efficiency and disease etiology itself, like I said. But, I'm
> > sure if you heard it from Neil, you'd tend to accept it more. Neil?
> From what I have seen all the studies of epigenetics demonstrates that
> RNA is far from smart, but rather stupid as most epigenetic phenomena
> have come to our attention due to problems in transgenerational
> inheritance.- Hide quoted text -
