Celebrating 150 years of Darwin's theory - "Minds Eye"

Message from discussion Celebrating 150 years of Darwin's theory

Ian Pollard

More options Jul 20, 11:52 pm

From: "Ian Pollard" <ian.poll...@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:52:54 +0100

Local: Sun, Jul 20 2008 11:52 pm

Subject: Re: [Mind's Eye] Re: Celebrating 150 years of Darwin's theory

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Pat / Pottsie,

I understand your preciousness over the term "spirituality", as I'm sure
Dawkins does, hence I think the choice to coin the term "secular
spirituality" is very deliberate. Come in, it has hardly escaped Dawkins
that the term is oxymoronic. That's the bloody point! Wouldn't it be
convenient or funny if Dawkins was so stupid as to not see this? C'mon,
whether you like him or not, don't misrepresent his intent.

Pat, you've perhaps taken this a step further and started speculating about
what this might mean for atheists. It doesn't mean anything. You are fixated
on a notion of the word "spirituality" that I think is changing, if not
changed. For example, secular humanism is a positive framework for
enshrining all sorts of things that are traditionally in the realm of the
spiritual or the religious (e.g. weddings, funerals, etc). Humanist
celebrants now carry out "spiritual" roles which do not indulge a shred of
superstition.

In other words, the atheists are coming for you! They'll start by stealing
your rights of passage, then they'll steal your words and claim them for
their own. They'll be killing your babies next. :)

Ian

2008/7/20 Pat <PatrickDHarring...@hotmail.com>:

> On Jul 20, 9:25 am, "Ian Pollard" <ian.poll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You theists aren't very good at thinking outside the box. :)

> > "Secular spirituality" reflects a paradigm that has long existed, but
> hasn't
> > been commonly named. I would suggest, by your flapping, that it's the
> > perfect name. Whilst I don't think there's any worthwhile evidence for
> the
> > existence of "spirit" as you might like, secular spirituality is a handy
> > collective term for some perfectly secular notions about human behaviour,
> > emotions, and creativity.

> > As for quoting the dictionary, Pottsie, well that's rather disappointing.
> > Dawkins is, after all, a Fellow of the Royal Society for Literature. He's
> > also one of the most noted authors for his use of concise and accurate
> > language. In other words, I think he has the edge on you (no offence).
> > Language evolves, and "secular spiritiuality", in our increasingly
> > non-religious world, is absolutely appropriate for the current mood. It
> > also, as a funny coincidence, highlights the increasing irrelevance of
> > religious thought to people's lives. Be it for guidance, understanding
> where
> > we came from, support, or marking the events of our lives, our notions of
> > spirituality are forever changed.

> > Dawkins is right on the pulse of this, your ideas on spirituality are
> > increasingly out-moded. Whilst dictionaries can easily be updated to
> reflect
> > the zeitgeist, are you too closed-minded?

> But, you have to admit a certain amount of defeat if you want to
> have no God whilst, at the same time, wish to use words like
> spirituality and anything with 'geist' in it and apply them to
> yourself or the world around you. And before you remind me of what
> zeitgeist means today, note that it was originally a German
> translation of the Latin 'genius seculi', meaning 'guardian spirit'.
> Should we next expect to see atheists talk about 'the ghost in the
> machine' when referring to unpredictable quantum flux?
> By definition, any type of spirituality demands a spirit, which
> is refuted by atheists. It is, quite classically, an oxymoron, and it
> doesn't take an FRSL member to see that. I will easily grant that
> language evolves, but, when atheists admit spirituality, they admit
> more than they should, if they would like to retain any dignity in
> their argument.

> > Ian

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